tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4209921721314660731.post1084580911505558169..comments2024-03-10T19:39:07.469+00:00Comments on Synapsida: Spanish Painted Dogs (and What They Can Tell Us)JK Revellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00358838350092883422noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4209921721314660731.post-49823048807869715712013-11-04T22:09:36.118+00:002013-11-04T22:09:36.118+00:00For these purposes, I'm including the South Am...For these purposes, I'm including the South American foxes (*Cerdocyon*, *Pseudalopex*, that sort of thing) as "true canines", in the sense that they're usually regarded as members of the Caninae, although not the Canini. By "vulpines" I'm really only referring to *Vulpes* itself, and probably *Otocyon*. As you say, the position of *Urocyon* is debatable - the 2005 study I linked to makes it a vulpine, the 2012 one has it (as you describe) as neither. But, yes, "fox" is not a thing :)JK Revellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00358838350092883422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4209921721314660731.post-63341572030020598312013-11-04T00:32:29.115+00:002013-11-04T00:32:29.115+00:00The division into "vulpines" and "t...The division into "vulpines" and "true canines" may be an oversimplification. There was an article in "American Scientist" a few years back (early 2000s?) reviewing the phylogenetics of the Canidae: as I recall, there were about five main "branches" of the family tree, with animals of fox-like morphology (often with "fox" as part of their common names) on at least four of them, and big dog/wolf critters only on one: so maybe "foxes," if you think of them as a group, are paraphyletic w.r.t. "true canines." And a dyed-in-the-wool cladist would say "there is no such thing as a fox"! The "Gray Fox" (Urocyon) was, if I recall correctly, on the earliest-diverging branch: equally distantly related to both "true canines" and to the "Red Fox" (Vulpes): no natural group (clade) unites the Gray and Red Foxes to the exclusion of "true canines." (B.t.w.: I REALLY, REALLY enjoy your blog: it's one of the things I have bookmarked for frequent visits!)Allen Hazenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05223023647802175202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4209921721314660731.post-38042062669782414592013-11-03T20:45:39.689+00:002013-11-03T20:45:39.689+00:00Indeed; as I say, the idea that these are chronosp...Indeed; as I say, the idea that these are chronospecies is merely one theory. If, as the alternative suggests, the early species are *Xenocyon*, then the latter would be the ancestor of *Cuon* (that is, the dholes) at the very least, and possible *Canis* (wolves/coyotes/jackals) as well. This new fossil supports the chronospecies idea, but, as I think I also said, it's far from proof. Especially without the feet!JK Revellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00358838350092883422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4209921721314660731.post-41858107980877161612013-11-03T19:00:59.444+00:002013-11-03T19:00:59.444+00:00Of course, the picture of the evolution *Lycaon*, ...Of course, the picture of the evolution *Lycaon*, *Cuon* and *Canis* is more complex than you describe here. There's these factors to consider:<br />- Weird *Cynotherium* of Sardinia was likely close to *Lycaon* and a *Xenocyon* descendant itself.<br />- There are the very obscure fossil dogs *Megacyon* and *Mekecyon* that are considered relatives or descendants of *Xenocyon* as well.<br />- According to some studies, *Lycaon* and *Cuon* fall within traditional *Canis*, meaning all the aforementioned genera should be merged into *Canis* (I've seen them placed there in old sources, actually) or the Blackbacked and Striped jackal should be split off into their own genera.<br />-*Canis* itself may be a *Xenocyon*-derivative, if the aforementioned studies are correct.<br />- *Xenocyon* itself is clearly non-monophyletic if several genera are considered to have arisen from it. Then, in the study of fossil mammals there seems to be a far greater tolerance of such rampant paraphyly compared to, say, among dinosaur experts.<br /><br />BrianLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17880867575515761505noreply@blogger.com